From MSNBC:
A doctor and two nurses were arrested overnight in connection with the deaths of patients at a New Orleans hospital in the days following Hurricane Katrina, the Louisiana attorney general’s office said Tuesday.“We’re not calling this euthanasia. We’re not calling this mercy killings. This is second-degree murder,” said Kris Wartelle, a spokeswoman for Attorney General Charles C. Foti.
[snip]
Harry Anderson, a spokesman for Dallas-based Tenet Healthcare Corp., said the allegations against the medical care workers, if proven true, were disturbing.
“Euthanasia is repugnant to everything we believe as ethical health care providers, and it violates every precept of ethical behavior and the law. It is never permissible under any circumstances,” Anderson said.
Sad…
Polimom’s finding it very hard to condemn the actions of the folks who were in that hospital. Even if these health care professionals did what they’re accused of, the chaos and despair in the days following the storm were, I believe, impossible to judge for anyone watching from outside.
From WaPo:
Foti had subpoenaed more than 70 people last fall in an investigation into rumors that medical personnel at Memorial Medical Center had euthanized patients who were in pain after the hurricane as they waited in miserable conditions for rescue.
The mother of Dr. Anna Pou, who was among the three arrested, said Tuesday she was distressed by the treatment of her daughter.
“Medicine was the most important thing in her life and I know she never ever did anything deliberately to hurt anyone,” Jeanette Pou said in a telephone interview.
I think you had to be there.
Other opinions from TMV: More Katrina Victims and Rightly So: 3 Arrests Katrina Hospital Deaths.
* * * * *
Update: In light of the very strong opinions surfacing around this incident, here’s a round-up:
Gina Cobb:
Let the case unfold as it will, and we’ll follow where the evidence leads.
I’ve previously written that I have some sympathy for the situation faced by both patients and doctors in this hospital after Hurricane Katrina. Although I’m generally opposed to euthanasia in any form on the theory that where there is life there is hope, the situation in this hospital in the days after Hurricane Katrina sounds a bit like a case of “lifeboat ethics” in which there were no good alternatives and tough moral and practical choices had to be made without the benefit of time and space for quite, objective reflection.
I have my opinion, but obviously it’s impossible to know for sure right now. And as satisfying as it might feel to lay these deaths on “Bushitler,” “Chocolateville” Nagin, the Corps of Engineers, the “Party of Death” or any other entity on the political landscape, none of that rhetoric will bring the accused or the families of the victims any closer to justice.
[…] Secondly, how many of the prosecutors were in that hospital that week? How many of them braved the 100+ degree heat, rising water, decreasing food and water supply, lack of electricity and dying patients and those screaming in agony for it to end or for help they couldn’t provide? The one guy who says this happened, one Dr. King, bailed out early and didn’t stay through it all. He also says he “heard” discussion of putting people out of their misery but didn’t witness ANY wrongdoings, according to EVERY article I’ve read.
And Rightly So… (in addition to the earlier post linked above):
Those sick patients were going to die anyway, sadly. They should have allowed that to happen naturally. Instead of playing God.
blackprof.com provides some snippets about some of the people involved.
Adrastos:
No crimes were committed at Memorial Hospital last fall. The doctors and nurses did the best they could in truly horrible conditions. They were stranded at that hospital for nearly a week and inevitably some of the sickest patients died. It’s a tragedy but whatever happened at the hospital, no crimes were committed.
This case does not present much of a legal dilemma, if Foti’s statements are correct. The law against killing people is pretty cleanly spelled out. The moral dilemma is another thing, though. I have tried to explain to those who love me that I do not fear death at all. What I fear is agonizing pain. I would make a very bad spy or mafiosa. The minute the torturers start using mean words with me, I will spill everything I know and then start making stuff up. I don’t believe it taking a Tylenol if I can just as easily take a muscle relaxer. If I ever come down with a painful terminal disease, the first thing I want to do is get addicted to the pain medication and stay that way.
Foti is jerk. He will regret doing this. I hope the defense calls Blanco, Jeff Smith(LOEP), and the CEO of Tenet hospitals.
I saw the Drs and nurses in action. You can’t imagine how dedicated they are to their patients. To leave the staff and patients on their own for 4 days without electricity, water, toilet facilities, food, etc…. is incomprehensable. The weasles that did it weren’t at the hospital treating patients.
Imagine a patient on a respirator, without electricity you have to do this manually, no water or food and in a building that probably had temps in the low 100’s. Imagine complete darkness. Let’s throw them in jail. Not until Blanco is there with them.
I am absolutely furious about this. I don’t think I’ll be able to sleep tonight i’m so mad. But I’m sure I can sleep more easily than the fine medical staff that took care of their patients in the weeks following Katrina.
Foti is an ASS!
It is possible for me to feel for the people charged in this crime. It was hot, chaotic, miserable conditions and unclear when help would arrive. However, they broke down after only 4 days. I”m sorry, but 4 days doesn’t get my sympathy for their actions. If it was 4 days in a war torn country or Africa where they had reason to believe they could all be killed eventually, perhaps, but not for being in NOLA.
With more details released later I might go along with facts that say the people who were killed were in incredible pain because their proper care required electricity very badly. I can picture that being a problem. But that doesn’t mean these people get off without punishment. Car accidents happen and people are punished when someone dies. If I had left my grandmother in a hospital thinking she was going to be safe, I would be incredibly upset to see so many other grandmothers survive this historical disaster, but mine didn’t because she was murdered.
I understand that the conditions were really bad for that hospital, but somehow the fact of it being only 4 days just really really bothers me. Although, I’m not sure how many days it would have to have been for there to be more sympathy from me.
It boils down to the basic act
Save who you can and be kind to those you can’t……may I be able to find the strength when faced w/ that situation..
Jack have you ever watched someone die for 4 days? I hope you never have to even watch for an hour.
I can only imagine that Foti is about to make a run for governor to have gone along with this. I’ll be interested to see what happens there.
I am ashamed of the media for its cold-blooded persecution of Dr. Pou. I know without a doubt she did not administer any medication with intent to “harm” or “euthanize” a patient. I am disgusted with how entertainment hungry the American public is to have bought in to this utter fantasy.
This is the rumor mill at its worst. A fine, dedicated physician is being crucified for sticking it out.
Put on your thinking caps folks. Only in Hollywood, would you find statements as ludicrous as “leave no patient alive”. What a bunch of absolute crap.
Funny that the accusers had all fled the hospital hours before.
One of these days, you or someone you know is going to need an experienced ENT surgeon. And if you can’t find one…or don’t like who you get…tough. You’re standing by while an excellent doc is being destroyed…the damage already done is most likely not able to be repaired.
I’ll take Dr. Pou any day.
And if you’re a physician, I’d leave Louisiana…you’ll be next. Their attorney general is on a witch hunt…probably on the payroll for Tenet Healthcare.
I agree that the media has kinda assumed that these people are guilty and that they should get a full fair trial. It also looks like an easy situation where you would think surely someone did this, but in reality no one killed anyone. I wouldn’t be surprised if this all turned out that way after all. Not the first time rumors would be turned into fact.
No, i haven’t watched someone die in this situation like these people for 4 days. I understand it was horrible and that yes, the thought of helping someone die with dignity would have come up in conversations or even plans. And i’d like to feel more for medical professionals put in such a position. But it was murder in a state that doesn’t allow euthanasia. And there should be a punishment for it. It is the opinions expressed by people that somehow the accused shouldn’t face penalties from their actions if they are in fact guilty that i don’t agree with.
My guess is that no jury will ever find anybody guilty in these cases, nor will there be any pleas. The charges make for great publicity for a ‘tough on crime; sort of prosecutor, and then they crawl quietly under a rug while the prrosecutor basks in some glory for being oh so caring.
Rememebr the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. Be skeptical when people in power make broad statements that further their own agendas or make themselves look good. If this actually comes to trial and we see actual evidence, we can make some judgments. Until then, it’s just more interesting noise. Blah blah, we arrested some people blah blah but we can’t tell you anything more about the case because blah blah if we do that then you’ll know we don’t really know anything but we’re hoping the arrests will get us some information blah blah.
” IMNSHO, I believe you summed it all up with the simple phrase: I think you had to be there.”. It seems to me that the situation was one step short of being along the lines of combat., and as such, it is impossible for anyone who was NOT there to cry out in anger that the right thing wasn’t being done. Personally, I am pro-life. I dont believe in abortion or euthanasia, or the death penalty, but that is my opinion, and I dont play into these groups who make it a personal crusade. It’s really my business, and noone elses, unless I decide to share it with others (like here).
That being said, i have to say that I am alarmed at the pro-life groups that have latched onto this like (pardon the pun) grim death, and are trying to add the alleged victims of euthansia to their own little war. It’s amazing how cavalier an attitude alot of them had about Katrina in general, not even posting one thing about the hurricane at all, but let the word *euthanasia* slither into the conversation and they’re all calling for the blood of the cold heartless murder who took innocent lives. never mind the thousands of displaced families, for get the 9th ward, someone took a life before it was supposed to end!
That REALLY irritates me…..Sorry to vent, but I am really hoping this is all B.S.
“Those sick patients were going to die anyway, sadly. They should have allowed that to happen naturally. Instead of playing God.”
What the hell?!?! Oh, ok, so someone is going to die in the next 24 hours; theyre in agony, a torrent of physical pain, theyre frightened not only by the prospect of death, but by the fact that theyre stuck in a hospital that has no power, no food, no security, in a town that is under 18 feet of water, under a very weak state of martial law that is being dictated by mob rule? I think they made the right decision. If I was dying, and had the choice between dying peacefully, or spending my last hours baking under the cruel September sun on the neutral ground, load me up with morphine doc.
If I may be allowed to qoute “Collateral”:
Vincent: Have you ever heard of Rwanda?
Max: Yes, I know Rwanda.
Vincent: Well, tens of thousands killed before sundown. Nobody’s killed people that fast since Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Did you bat an eye, Max?
Max: What?
Vincent: Did you join Amnesty International, Oxfam, Save the Whales, Greenpeace, or something? No. I off one fat Angelino and you throw a hissy fit.
Max: Man, I don’t know any Rwandans.
Vincent: You don’t know the guy in the trunk, either.
Part of the point of my post was that the media is not necessarily accurate on this. For example, the idea that there was no food and water is apparently untrue. When I worked at MMC I was part of building the internal JCAHO review website. I know for a fact that they had an emergency plan, and I linked to their response to CNN where they apparently followed that plan, and had plenty of food and water available. Additionally, it’s been reported that all the people who were allegedly euthanized were *not* terminal, and some were expected to survive an evac with no problem. IF that is true, then this was by no means a case of mercy killings. McManus’ account of what happened to her mother is chilling, and it has not (yet) been discredited. That’s why it has to play out in the court system, to try to establish what happened and why.
Was it unbearably hot? Yes. No sewage? True. A plan to get out? Yes, they had one. MMC was already following their plan, and Lifecare ought to have been – and may have been, for all I know – as well. This doctor may or may not be guilty, I guess we’ll see how it plays out in court. But the accusers did not “all” flee – plenty were available and were interviewed by both the media and the police, and the accusations are credible. Not established as fact at this time, but credible enough to deserve their day in court.
And as for Foti being on the Tenet payroll – doesn’t wash, at least as far as these charges go. Tenet’s not on the hook for this, Lifecare is, and possibly LSU, who is Dr. Pou’s employer (though I doubt it). Lifecare rented out the whole floor, and was run separately from MMC. They have their own JCAHO accreditation and everything, separate evac plan, etc. This is Lifecare’s problem, and Tenet just wants to make sure they don’t get bad publicity out of it – I don’t think they’re worried about any legal issues; it’s already been ruled on in their favor once.
My comment about Foti on the Tenet payroll was made in frustration and please accept my retraction. Also I am new to blogging, so if I make some egregious error please know it is unintended.
But it’s not enough to say “you werent there so you dont know what went on”. That is a cop-out statement used by those who would entertain any fantasy they could make up. I know Dr. Pou didn’t administer lethal drugs like I know the sun is going to rise tomorrow.
You aren’t going to find an episode of Sherriff Andy Taylor torturing Aunt Bee and Opey…and the courts aren’t going to find evidence of euthanasia. Not because it can’t be found, but because it never happened.
Those who don’t know the individuals can imagine whatever BS they want. But I know the doctor.
I am so upset by this that I’ve decided to start laying some blame where it belongs. Some of you have a lot of energy to expend in persecution of others…why not ask for some accountability with the federal government and their responsibility to those patients, the state government (including Foti), the local government…etc…
And as far as Tenet is concerned…they’ve been in so much trouble I wouldn’t put anything passed them.